The Money Healing Podcast

#27 Money and the Enneagram with Natalia Hernandez

July 24, 2023 Nadine Zumot Season 1 Episode 27
The Money Healing Podcast
#27 Money and the Enneagram with Natalia Hernandez
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Are your spending habits rooted in your unresolved traumas?

Are your financial decisions coming from the need for security or status?

Or would you do anything just to stand out?

It could be your Enneagram!

In this episode of The Money Healing Podcast, my guest Natalia, a certified enneagram and relationship coach, reveals how the relationship between Enneagrams and our financial behaviors can lead to a profound transformation in our lives.

The Enneagram relates to all areas of our lives including finances.
 
We embark on this journey by first examining enneagrams, our money beliefs, and their interconnectedness. Natalia then shares her personal journey of how enneagrams revolutionized her marriage and how she helps her clients better understand themselves and what motivates them. 

As we venture further, Natalia breaks down each Enneagram and its core fears, and how this can impact our decisions around money.

This episode will provide you with a fun, yet wholesome way to take a closer look at what might be secretly motivating your financial choices, and insights into what motivates your behavior with money and relationships. 

Enjoy!

Nadine and Natalia!


__________________________________________
Natalia is a Certified Enneagram & Relationship Coach helping individuals and couples heal and mend their relationships. Natalia is a Type 7 on the Enneagram and learning this was the catalyst that transformed her marriage. She now helps others do the same.

Connect with Natalia:
nataliahernandezcoaching.com
Instagram @nataliahernandezcoaching

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~Podcast theme song by
The Jilted Irony

Speaker 1:

Hello, hello and welcome back to the Money Healing Podcast. I am your host, nadine Zommott, and today we've got a different kind of guest and a different kind of topic. It is related to money, but today we're going to be diving into enneagrams. So with me here I've got Natalia Hernandez, who is a certified enneagram and relationship coach, so she specializes in helping individuals and couples heal and mend their relationships. Natalia is a type 7 on the enneagram. I just learned I'm a type 8, I believe, and learning this was the catalyst that got Natalia to transform her marriage. Now she helps other to do the same. Welcome to the Money Healing Podcast, natalia. It is wonderful to have you here today.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much for having me. This is going to be a great conversation.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. So my first question is what turns you on in life, natalia? Tell us.

Speaker 2:

Oh, fun, fun. That lights me up. So that would specifically, I guess, be horseback riding, and, yeah, and also the complete opposite of that, which is just genuinely hanging out on the couch with my husband watching our shows.

Speaker 1:

honestly, I know couch time is pretty sacred. I think after the pandemic we all just resorted to that as our you know little guilty pleasure and we just love it. We sometimes even eat dinner watching TV on the couch, which is not a great habit, but yeah, I understand that's pretty sacred.

Speaker 2:

Yes, we eat dinner every night actually on the couch. We have a formal dining table, but it's you just ignore it. I don't know, we just ignore it. It's just the two of us, so we just plop ourselves on the couch with our food and we just eat next to each other watching our shows, and it's great.

Speaker 1:

It's so much fun, it's true. And horseback riding I would imagine the opposite of horseback riding would be swimming. But if it's the couch, then it's the couch. Yeah, I'm not a fan of swimming, so out of all the personality assessment quizzes and all the fun stuff that's out there. Why enneagrams? What's your personal story with enneagrams?

Speaker 2:

Oh. So the thing I love about the enneagram is that it tells you your core motivating reasons. So a lot of the other ones tell you your behaviors, what you do. They give you examples for how you show up in the world, how you respond to things. It's all very behavioral, which is great, but what we need to understand about behavior is the reasons behind what motivates you to react the way that you do. So in order to know what you do in life, you have to know why, and the enneagram gives you the core motivating reasons for what fuels you to do what it is that you do.

Speaker 1:

Wow, okay, so I, after having conversations with you, I went and did my. Is it an enneagram assessment? Is that what you call it? Yeah, okay, so I am at equal parts eight and two, and then I believe let me pull up my little pdf and then I'm also equal parts seven and six. So what does that say about my core motivating? You know underlying reasons of why I do what I do.

Speaker 2:

So, right off the bat, nothing, nothing. And the reason why is because there are too many types that came up for you, yeah, so we would need to look at each one and there's. This is why, when people take online assessments, it's really important that they look at the top four and then through process of elimination based on looking at the descriptions of things, because, if not, they can like make themselves be stuck in a hole in one type which actually really might not be theirs. So the ones. What I like to say is, when you're reading them, the thing that kind of jumps out at you sticks at you the most in not the best way, where you're like, ew, I don't want to be that person that's usually yours, because it's hitting you to your core and you're having like a defensive reaction.

Speaker 1:

Oh shit, okay cool. I feel like that's really similar to so I do money archetypes in my practice and I have a feeling that you know when you're when you're doing your horoscopes. You're at one horoscope or two. You know I'm a Leo Virgo. You know, as we all know, we all have aspects of every other sign in our charts, but with money archetypes, we actually have all of them at play, but some of them more passive and others more active. Is that how it's like in the enneagram system?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's exactly what it's like there. So the enneagram is based on nine different personality types, but we all have a little bit of each type within ourselves, which is why you might have shown up with, like, a whole bunch of different kinds and you're like well, which one is mine? Well, we all have all of them within us, but one is much stronger than the other. Which is your leading type, and each one has very different core motivating core motivating reasons behind what you do. So I'm a type seven. What drives me to make purchases, not make purchases, have confrontations, run away from confrontations, right, anything that we do in life? What drives me as a seven is my fear of being withheld, so denying myself something. I don't like that feeling. Maybe other people don't enjoy that feeling either, but for a seven it's a fear of mine, it's a trigger. And then, on top of that, I don't like to feel any kind of emotion that's too strong. So anger, sadness, disappointment I run from those feelings. So for me, if I am agitated, frustrated, upset, what will make me feel better is anything that's going to bring me joy. And what's going to bring me joy than buying something I enjoy?

Speaker 1:

and how has the enneagram helped? Because your specialties relationships. So where were you? Just, you know, going out of the scope of money and just tracking how you got to your life purpose. Because this podcast is not just about money, it's also about following our intuition and following the intuitive nudges from the universe and going and doing what we're meant to be doing here. So what's that story? What got you there and how has it helped you personally, as Natalia?

Speaker 2:

oh my gosh, so out of. From my adolescence period up until now, I had this pattern, this habit of leaving every relationship I had been in. Um, I was considered kind of like the man quote unquote in the relationship, right like that stereotype that men just leave, they don't give too much warning. But I would do that the moment there was a hiccup in a relationship, the moment things got hard, I would just say I was unable to like have a proper conversation and say, hey, this is bothering me, this is what I'm feeling. I didn't have that emotional capacity so I would run. And it was a pattern throughout my life. And so when I got married I noticed those same patterns creeping in and the back of my mind I thought, oh my god, I don't think this is gonna last like, but I married now, like this is a problem but of a problem, can't pack it leave. We bought a house. This is a problem, right, um? And so I I needed to, but I didn't know what was wrong. Mm-hmm, I knew there was something, something nudging at me, something bothering me about it, but I didn't, I couldn't put words to it, couldn't figure it out, and so I just found myself spinning, and well, I hope something gets better one day. I couldn't figure out what the problem was, and when I came across the internet I mean the end of your on the internet, um, a friend of mine had mentioned to me we were talking. She said are you an end of your type seven? I was like, what are you a? What, what, what is that? So when I looked it up and it blew my mind wide open, it gave me like just pure clarity into why I always left every relationship, why I always walked out of every room when a partner would bring something up that was challenging for me or difficult for me. I didn't have that emotional capacity, but I didn't recognize that to be the thing okay. And when I learned that a type seven has the biggest fear of feeling sadness or anger, right being because we feel like, if we feel that we're going to be stuck in that forever and so, to prevent ourselves from feeling those negative or you know, quote-unquote, bad emotions, I would just reject it and I would, I would leave or walk away or shut it down. Um, and obviously, in relationships with anybody in your life, you have to be able to have a conversation yeah, yeah, even you know, I mean a relationship with yourself yeah, oh that a big denier I've all I've been a big denier of when things haven't gone my way, I blow it off like that's not the big of a deal. I'm a positive reframer, so I'm a glass is full, kind of a thinker, and so anything negative I would go well. But there's also this really great thing about it too well, that's not a really bad habit to have. Unless you're emotionally or spiritually bypassing, then that is yeah becomes a problem yeah, and for a seven, specifically, it is. So, yes, it's wonderful. And at the same time I had to learn to not deny or avoid my own feelings. And through the enneagram and then I hired an enneagram coach and I worked with her for some time I really learned to open up and be vulnerable and realize it's okay if I'm angry. Right now I can let myself be angry, it's not going to last forever and in fact my marriage and relationships with everybody in my life is so much stronger Because I don't have that fear anymore that everything's going to go to shit. Like I can talk about things, we can work things out and hey, then it's over. Now we move past it. And so now I've actually moved to a place where I talk about everything, like I need to talk about this, I want to talk about this other thing, and it feels good to get it off my chest and it's for anybody, but it's because I learned the core reasons behind me, you know.

Speaker 1:

Let's just say, walking out of a room, yeah, Wow, I've been reading lots of data on how suppressed emotions are the root cause for most of our illnesses and chronic pain and autoimmune disorders and all of that. And wow, good on you for doing that for yourself, because I'm probably the opposite. I think I'm more leaning towards the eight of like volatile and like conflict driven. I'm like not driven, but like if there's a conflict, you bet your ass. I'm going to like face it head on and make sure that it's out of the way and everybody's okay. I, from my understanding, I'm not a pro like you are, but I feel like that's a trait of an eight, maybe.

Speaker 2:

It is. That's pretty and that is something typical that an eight would say Like I have no problem with confrontation. Yeah, no, actually they're called the challenger.

Speaker 1:

I feel like I'm a dodge challenger. Is that what the name of the car is? I'm like, all righty cool, all right that's, and your husband's into it. He gets all that stuff, or he's like, yeah, that's.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm so it's. It's been a few years now, so he's well versed, but he's a type five and they take time to process things and understands and they do research and and. Because I know that when I first got into the enneagram, I would send him tons of information on it and he would read it and then it took him a while to agree with me that he was a type five. But when he read everything he's like yeah, okay, that makes sense and type fives are. So, if you want to look at it in terms of a relational aspect, I was afraid of my emotions, right, but type fives, they're not afraid of their emotions, they just don't express any of it. So you had two people, okay.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my God. I see that recipe Right, the recipe to. Nothing.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I didn't want to talk about things and I would just blow up in anger or frustration and he just wouldn't share period Silence, exactly, exactly. He would bring in logics, right, like we would have an argument about something and I would come in with my frustration, but not wanting to share too much of what I really felt, and then he would come in with let's logically resolve this and let's what are the facts of the situation, right? So it was a learning curve to be able to navigate how we can communicate better, resolve things, but from emotional standpoint. We are both logical thinkers and so we approach everything from a logic standpoint. But in relationships with anybody, it's not, it's not just about the facts, oh hell, no that what you guys really feel Like. That is the whole thing about being in a relationship with someone.

Speaker 1:

I mean if the resolution to anything it was logical, it would have been done already. It's the emotional part that's all sticky and volatile and you either want to face it or you want to face it too much, like myself. I'm like, oh, I'm just going to face everything head on and that's relationship with my partner. We're like that. My relationship with my friends If there's a problem, I'm the one bringing things up. Also, my relationship with my business, like, if there is an issue, I keep at it and keep at it, and keep at it pretty obsessively sometimes if it's persistent until it's resolved. And then I'm like, okay, all right, now we can sit down until the next issue comes up, which is not great, but that's, yeah, that's my balance.

Speaker 2:

It's a balance. But to answer your question more directly, yes, he's into the Enneagram now. So now when I mentioned different types and things, it makes sense to him. He laughs about it.

Speaker 1:

Oh wow, that's so good. Enneagram inside jokes. It's cute.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's adorable. How has? Okay. So you did that, and then you decided you're going to start a business doing Enneagrams and all that, which I guess is really good, because business is not easy, as we all know, and had you not done that work, you'd have walked away or walked out on your business and your life, calling, not understanding what is going on or why you're doing it. That's incredible.

Speaker 2:

I mean honestly, I don't. We have a great. My husband and I have a great relationship, but I had great relationships with all of my exes and so, truthfully, when you think of marriage, or not even marriage, but committing yourself to one person for the rest of your life, there was always this little doubt in the back of my mind of will this last forever? Yeah, and now that's gone, I just don't like, I just don't ever have that again. But it's because of this, and had it not been for that, you know, I don't know in a couple of years where things would have ended up.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, you've got all these. You know we're adults now we kind of have bigger commitments and committing to someone means more than like a promise ring. It means assets and houses and all this. And you got to make things work because the love is there. It's just emerging of the issues and the wounding and all that stuff. Because I approach money from more of an inner child healing perspective and all the things that you're mentioning, I would have attributed them to kind of like more of early family or developmental dynamics that would influence the way that we would encounter or deal with any difficulties or conflict. So I'm an attachment theory perhaps, but it's an interesting take to look at it from a personality type.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's a really good point. I think maybe you can tell me on this. I, as a seven and again I don't want to like stereotype, right, but generally, depending on the person, a seven or just speaking specifically for me I enjoy spending. I spend more maybe than what I should at times, but I also grew up in a situation where I did always get what I wanted, not in a spoiled way because we didn't grow up rich, it was just if there was money to spend on it, they would just buy it for me, right? If we went to the store and we were doing grocery shopping and I wanted that candy bar, I would just get that candy bar. So I never felt denied in that sense. I did a lot of extracurricular activities if I wanted to do them. So for me money has always seemed abundant. And so now as an adult, I still carry that with me and I see it now as a mother to my four year old, when we're out and kids are always asking for things, and I find myself in that fine line between giving it to him because I just think, why not? It's fun and why not? And the things at his age he's four it's like $2, $3. I find myself between giving it to him and also saying, no, we can't spend everything, because I don't want to create that scarcity mindset in him of oh wait, do we not have money? What does that mean? Okay, right, so it's a tricky situation when it comes from, is it?

Speaker 1:

though, because it doesn't sound like it's a situation. You're the expert. The whole thing is that for some reason, someone decided to spread this incorrect information that spending money is bad. Why spending money bad? I don't understand where it started or what it's trying to do, but sometime years ago, that was the information that spending money is bad.

Speaker 2:

I think it's like at least from my parents' era that they dropped it down on to me is making sure you've got a really big savings account, you've got retirement money in there so that you're not struggling at an old age, and so that kind of always moves me back of my mind, of course having all of that.

Speaker 1:

All that structure is very important. Now, if you're spending for the quote, unquote wrong reasons, then there's an issue. So, when we're spending to fill a void, when we're spending because we're feeling inadequate, when we're buying things for children, for our children or whatever, even our pets, just because somewhere in the back of our subconscious we feel like we're not good enough and we've got to make it up, there is the problem. And obviously more practical situations where spending or overspending could be a problem is are you putting yourself in a kind of a precarious situation financially, like, are you borrowing from your future, aka are you putting yourself in a hole in debt? Are you borrowing from your savings constantly? Is this preventing you from saving for your retirement? Or is this stopping you from living the life of your dreams? Because when I was working like in a nine to five, we all knew that we all made exactly as much as each other, but somehow Nadine was able to go on all the trips and Nadine was able to do all this and all that. And everyone's like like what's up? Why? And I was like it's because I don't allow. I've healed my overspending wound. I don't allow it to come in between myself and my dreams and very clear on who. I am very clear on my dreams and very clear on where what my values are and where my money is going, and if my money is going towards something that feels out of like it's not right. I'm very semantically in tune and I know what what it feels like in my body if I'm doing it for the wrong reasons or for overcompensation.

Speaker 2:

You hit that on the nail. I feel that inside. Yeah, well, for someone like me, I enjoy the spending, and you tell me. So I've kind of approached this now in my life of asking myself if I want to buy something. I've asked myself is it a need or is it a want? And then if it's a want, I don't like to deny myself right. So then what I do is you do, I absolutely do.

Speaker 1:

Your soul does not no needs. Your soul is a free spirit. Your soul wants what your soul wants. As long as you're in tune with yourself, with you, in tune you with your intuition, you can't deny what your soul wants. Because what if what your soul wants is a want and not a need? And then you deny yourself that and somehow you're like breaking a whole chain of reaction that will lead you to more purpose, more expanding of yourself and more expanding of others around you.

Speaker 2:

Oh, my god, that's so good. Yeah huh, I never thought of it that way. I was just like is this a need is?

Speaker 1:

this a want? No, that's very old-school thinking and it is. Yeah, I don't subscribe to that and I don't do that. I don't do that crap, sorry. I mean it's served, it serves, it can serve us. It's this kind of thinking can serve us, but in the scope of the work that I do, it's more intuition based living.

Speaker 2:

I like you so much more now.

Speaker 1:

But how can knowing or understanding our enneagram help us with this question, this particular question, not just with spending money, because we're see, what I see in social media is either people that are so fixated on earning money like do more, attract more clients, manifest, do this or people like don't spend, is it a need and it's a want. Sorry, I'm just egging on you, but like there's like so many other aspects of money that no one is addressing. You know, there's the spending, there's the saving okay, cool, but what about, like other aspects of money? And how can that be better understood and leverage through understanding our enneagram?

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh. So I think right now, anyone that is listening that wants to get into the Enneagram also go and hire Nadine for your money wounds, because this hit me in a way that I hadn't ever thought of it before and, yeah, you've kind of like opened up a can there for me. I'm like processing in real time, so I'll get back to that, okay, but this is perfect, because can I just run through the nine dots quickly? Absolutely go ahead, yeah, so okay. So the type one is known as the perfectionist or the reformer. They love to be in control, they like to be good and perfect and ethically good and they have high morals. So they are more likely to hold on to the money, to control the money, to be in charge of the money, because that's what's good. The tendency wouldn't be to spend quote unquote recklessly or on frivolous things. It would be to be proper. Whatever they would think is the right thing to do with the money, whether it's the right thing to spend it or not, then they make that choice. So again, these are all generalizations based on type.

Speaker 1:

Of course each person, and you just said that it is the dance between the types, but in general the one is a reformer and they want to do the right thing with money.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, so they might hold on or invest rather than spending on other things. A type two is known as the helper. They love to be wanted and appreciated and supported and cared for. They are more likely to spend money, but not on themselves and other people Showering with affection of gifts, oh my goodness.

Speaker 1:

I have a lot of clients. I don't know if they know that they're a type two, but people pleasing is one of the biggest reasons why people get themselves in financial trouble.

Speaker 2:

That is strong for the two I want to give you everything, yeah, everything.

Speaker 1:

Just love me, just let me be helpful. And it's just over, like it kind of makes people on the receiving end a little bit uncomfortable with like, oh my God, this is too much yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Like thank you. I didn't ask for this, but okay, thank you, I'll take it.

Speaker 1:

This is weird. I was going to say something about this. Yeah, in money archetypes, this is the martyr archetype and it just is this deep need for being loved and appreciated and seen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yes, yeah. That would be the type two. The type three is known as the achiever. They love success. They are driven. They're like they're the work horses of the world. They are the leaders, the ones driven to be successful. They work to be received as respectful right. They love their place, their status, their status. They will most likely spend spend to keep up their appearance of being successful and acknowledged. It makes them feel more powerful in control of how other people perceive them. But they will spend more so that they have an appearance of success and wealth rather than something deep inside them that they truly want. Got it. Does that make?

Speaker 1:

sense yeah, got it, okay. So they like to keep up with the Joneses pretty much and keep up with their appearances. Yeah, got it. What's the? I want to call it the wound because that's my lingo, but what's the? What's the word? I wrote it, the core motivating reason behind that.

Speaker 2:

Oh well, that's them not not being respected or seen, not seen as valuable Gotcha, so they want to be seen.

Speaker 1:

They're not seen as seen. Yeah, exactly, they want to be valued, gotcha.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that is their motivating reason behind it Is that different to number two's motivating reason?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, number two is not being loved, loved. Okay, so number two is loved. Number three is to be valued, and then number one. What's their motivating thing?

Speaker 2:

To be bad. Their core fear is to be bad, to be wrong, to do the wrong thing. It's a fear of being wrong.

Speaker 1:

Gotcha Fear of being wrong.

Speaker 2:

I love this All right Number four, number four they're yeah, they're called the individualists. They have this desire to be unique and authentic in every single aspect of their life. So if, if, multiple people have the color red and they will make sure they get the color blue because, to them, they need to be unique and individualists, so they're called the individualists. They are likely to spend money, but spend money on very specific items that make them feel good, authentic to themselves and special. Got it so it's for themselves. Okay, to help them stand apart, to make them feel unique, safe, supported in themselves.

Speaker 1:

So their core fear would be to be just plain Jane, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Got it that's and not being. They also have a fear of being misunderstood. Because they're so unique, they can be misunderstood by a lot of people, and so that's kind of like a trigger for them as well. So they would buy the things for themselves to be like this is who I am. Don't let anybody get confused. These are the things that I like. This is who I am. This is who I am. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So they are very unique in what they give. They will take their time to think about what you specifically like and what you love and make sure whatever they give you is authentic and unique and special to you.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so that is they give you a gift about you, whereas number two was it they give you a gift about them. The people, please, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I would agree with that. Yeah, I think you would love they would give it to you. But fours really take the time to pick something out, just special. Yeah, gotcha, okay, but they're called the romantics also. It's the individualists, or romantics.

Speaker 1:

I love, that Okay, yeah, number five.

Speaker 2:

Number five is called the researcher or the investigator, however you call it, and this is my husband's type they save, they save. They're also known as hoarders. They have this fear.

Speaker 1:

Investigators is a nicer word than hoarders, okay.

Speaker 2:

He keeps boxes of everything. Any kind of device He'll keep the box from, just in case he needs a box.

Speaker 1:

I bet you. My husband is an investigator. Tell me he edits so.

Speaker 2:

So they're savers, they like to invest, they like to make sure because they have this fear of being unsupported. They don't like to rely on anyone, so they stand on their own two feet. So they need to make sure they're taking care of themselves. They've got money in the bank, they've got good investments and they do make purchases. But it takes them a long time because they research the right purchase they get. If they're looking at one item, they'll look at resources from different areas to make sure that's the right item and then they'll spend. So they don't have a fear of spending the money. They just hold on to it until they know it's the right product, the right time to invest. Investigators, and then they spend Exactly.

Speaker 1:

Research, yeah, hordes information 100%.

Speaker 2:

Got it. Sometimes you just need to make a decision, just to see things. You can't research it anymore.

Speaker 1:

All right Number. I think I've got a six in my yes, I do, don't I? Yeah, I think I've got. How many points do I have of six? I think it's my lowest one, which would be number Okay, I've got 18. I scored 18 on six. How interesting I actually have. I knew it. I have 17 points for the reformer. I was like, yeah, that sounds like me. All right, got it. So number six.

Speaker 2:

Number six is the loyalist, so they will. So what they want, their desire in life, is to feel safe and secure and supported. So they're the loyalists because they'll stick by you. You're good to them, they will stick by you through anything, and so they are pretty good with their money. They're responsible. They're the best trouble shooters out of any other personality, so they'll take a minute to think about whether this is irresponsible or not to spend the money. What are the worst case scenarios? If I spend this money, what would happen? Okay, I'm in figuring that out. But also, if they're in a stress point and they're not feeling secure within themselves, supported, then they will spend the money in order to feel like they're supported. They need to go and support themselves, they need to make themselves feel safe, so they'll go and they'll spend on something that gives them that feeling.

Speaker 1:

So to recap for number six they're really into safety and security and they really want to feel supported. Therefore, when they feel a little bit, they run and they spend money to feel that support, to feel that safety. Thank you, exactly. One thing I would say, though it could be that they might save money to feel supported. They might have difficulty parting with it, because that's their sense of safety and security. Is that? Could that be possible for number six?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely yeah. They're pretty responsible people, and so they are more likely to save the money and invest the money than spend it.

Speaker 1:

Okay, Now you number seven.

Speaker 2:

We're called the enthusiasts, most likely out of any of the types to spend money because it gives us that rush of fun and it can even be on frivolous things not all sevens. It also depends on where you are in your life, how self-aware you are, of course, like all the other types, but generally speaking, we are the ones that most likely spend for ourselves, spend for other people, because it's fun to buy people gifts and it's fun to see people's reactions when they get the gifts you give them. So we're more likely to spend money than save money.

Speaker 1:

Gotcha Absolutely Okay. So what's the fear? What's the core?

Speaker 2:

fear behind that being told that I can't spend the money that I make. So it's being it's the fear being held back.

Speaker 1:

Okay, restriction, got it Absolutely. So the money earlier was like just, you know, hitting a chord or what did you say? Oh, hitting the nail on the head. Yeah, got it Absolutely. Yeah, we can talk about that later. I understand why this is a very precious thing for you and I also understand why, when I asked what turns you on in life, you're like fun. Very seven of you. Now that I'm like speaking the lingo, very seven of you. Natalia, it is All right, we've got two more.

Speaker 2:

Number eight so number eight, they're known as the challengers, nadine possibly. So their desire is to be in control. They're strong. They want to protect more than anything. They want to protect the people they love. They will go to bat for the people they love. They will stand even. They will even stand up against their partner if it's in their partner's best interests. They're just protectors.

Speaker 1:

That's so me, I mean. I'm pretty sure as Tomi is editing this, he's like snorting from laughing Like yep, that's my wife. I would actually fight with him about him, for him, for his own good right, I mean, he quit smoking.

Speaker 2:

That's a good thing for everyone yeah, there you go, see, good for you.

Speaker 1:

Well, it was the last, so he was a smoker pretty much all his life. And the last thing and I've always fought with him about it but the last thing that pushed him to quit was when we moved to Australia and he found that a packet of cigarette was over $40 there for one packet of cigarettes. He's like I think I'm done now. Oh wow, it was great. Now he doesn't smoke anymore, even though we're back in the States. He's like okay, I'm done.

Speaker 2:

Wow, well, good, that's awesome, good for you. So a type 8 fear is. Well, their desire is to be controlled right, to have control for protection. Their fear is not being in control, the fear of being manipulated by other people, taken advantage of other people, even if it's their loved ones. They perceive anything you might tell them as some kind of manipulation. So you're the one that's going to control the situation that makes you feel safe and supportive, absolutely Generally speaking and it's our big on trust right, they're very loyal, they'll trust you, but the moment the trust is gone, it's generally gone for good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah we are so spot on with this. I am the most difficult person on sales calls. When I am on a sales call from a client perspective, like when I want to buy from someone or work with a coach or whatever, I look out for that. If I feel any manipulation, anything that's trying to kind of make me say something I don't want to say or push me to say yes before I'm ready, I just walk away. I don't care if I love the coach, if I love what they offer, and I'm dying to work with them. If they say one thing that makes me feel pressured, I guess buy. No, that doesn't work. And that happened a couple of days ago at Costco, funny enough. So we've never been to Costco. Everybody's in love with Costco. We went and signed up and the lady at the desk was so freaking pushy that not only she tried to sell us the tier up, but she also tried to make us apply for a credit card. And I was just like that's not going to like the whole thing. No, we just walked away. I'm never going back to Costco. Yeah, Nothing wrong with Costco. I think it's great for people, but for me I felt pushed and manipulated at that sales desk to a point where I'm like, okay, no, that's fine.

Speaker 2:

Yep, yep. That's absolutely all the characteristics of a type eight. You described a very good friend of mine who notices that immediately and she asks tons of questions to make sure that she's not being manipulated, to make sure she's got all the facts right before making any kind of decision.

Speaker 1:

Don't tell me to apply for a credit card while I'm going shopping for groceries. I'm here to buy cucumbers and oranges and bananas Don't tell me go get a credit card. Don't do that Like that, don't play with me like this. That's a credit card that affects my credit score, that affects so many things, and that just made me angry because I have a lot of clients that come to me in their thirties trying to pay off credit cards from when they were in their college days. So not only did she trigger me like this, but she kind of put me because I grew up in Jordan, I didn't have that pressure, but she put me in the shoes of my innocent clients when there were 17, 18, 19, being thrown credit cards in their face without the proper education and for years and decades they carry this credit card debt and, of course, student loans that make them feel like shit, that they carry this unworthy feeling because of it and that, just like all happened within 10 minutes at a checkout desk, it's like okay, there's a lot going on here, I'm going back to the car.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, and you didn't fall for that.

Speaker 1:

No, oh hell no, yeah, yeah, no, don't play with me like that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, like you're and you can tell me because you're the expert on being a type 8, but I have down that a type 8 would is not afraid of spending money and would spend a lot of money if it's on their family, their home, a trip that's important to a family unit.

Speaker 1:

Yes, One million percent. I can seem stingy or not stingy, but like reserved. But I don't have a problem spending thousands of dollars on things I believe in.

Speaker 2:

You know, that was perfection what you just said, because I have eights in my life who are getting hurricane impact windows in their home which is upwards of $10,000, but will not spend $100 or $200 on a fancy dinner.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so fancy dinners is part of my values. I like going on these yeah, I really like that. But like, give me something that is out of my value list of values. I'm like I don't, don't, don't, I don't want to spend money on that. And even like, okay, so, for example, shoes. Tell me to spend $200 on a pair of shoes. I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. Tell me to spend $200 on a pair of Doc Martens, though that is a no brainer for me, because Docs represent something else to me that are not just footwear. Docs is, it's a statement. They're a statement, you know they. I think you can wear a plastic bag and Docs and you will look fabulous. That's my perspective, right? I love that. So not only like, is it just because it's footwear, but because it represents one of my core values, which is, you know, like just being very what's the word like? Authentic in your self expression. So authentic self expression for me can look like Docs, sometimes like buying a pair of Docs for 200 bucks or whatever.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I love that, and I think that's exactly what you said. It depends on your values.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it depends on our values. That's the first thing I do with clients is. I don't know what any gram number they are, but I just do this exercise with them and I help them extract their authentic values. Because sometimes we have wants that are trauma, wants like trauma, like wants from our unresolved wounding that makes us believe that we want something, but it's actually for the wrong reason. It's to prove something to ourselves or others. That's when we self sabotage. So when we start working together on in a money program, we make sure that the person in front of me wants and goals are coming from a place of authenticity, not coming from a place of trauma and wounding.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's so good. It's like you. I feel like you help them reboot. Yeah, and it and I can see the impact of that having on their entire life Like, what a relief. Yeah, just what. Like this weight lifted off of, wow, like I am in control of all these things. I'm not stuck in my past. There's like a path forward, a clear path forward here. Yeah, yeah. I love that, all right. Yeah, so last one, number nine. They're called the peacemakers. These are the mediators of life, the ones who want no drama, no conflict. Are they kind of like the passenger seat person? They're not the drivers. They like to hang out and let other people take the lead, and so what they want the most is inner peace. They want stability. Leave me alone.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they've had many, many adventurous past lives and for this life they're like just leave me alone.

Speaker 2:

Basically, basically, and then, on the flip side of that, their fear is being unwanted. So, yeah, so what they do is then they don't bring up issues that bother them, they don't enter into conflict because they have this underlying fear that then you'll leave them or reject them in some kind of way, and so, to prevent against that, they just get the peacemaker Right, and so for them. I have that. They are flexible when it comes to their spending. They're generally, I would say, not big spenders because they big. Things that other people usually buy don't matter as much to them. They won't spend it on what someone would consider a frivolous thing. They're more likely to spend on something that's useful, a TV for the home or things like that that they consider more useful, that someone else would find important, or benefiting the family or the group of friends. That they'll spend the money, but not so much on themselves and not so much on things that they don't consider important.

Speaker 1:

So would they spend money on things that would bring them peace of mind?

Speaker 2:

Yes, so things that bring them comfort, like I've worked with a lot of NUGAM type nine men and they all happen to be big gamers, so then they'll spend the money on things that are going to help them kind of like escape the dramas or any kind of conflict and like help them retreat to a place where they can just enjoy spending time alone. They're very independent, so whatever activity is for them to do on their own, then they'll go on there spend the money on that, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Oh wow, I really, really, really, really like NUGAMs. I am a very big fan of human design, but I think you've converted me, I think I like that.

Speaker 2:

It's the core reasons behind things. I love human design too. I'm a generator. I think you said you were a manifesting generator, right, obviously, yeah, very almost. So I get that. I get you know our strategy or how we respond to the world 100%.

Speaker 1:

The core motivation, yeah, that kind of like. I mean it's the thing, yeah, it unravels, it's the thing behind what you do. So it probably so you kind of mediate in. Mediate what a word. You help couples find more, you know, relation, relational peace, mediate I do mediate, you do mediate, don't you? Wow, that's very interesting. Now my mind's like we're going on a different like hang on mind. Just come back here. I'm like how do I get certified? No, no, no, hang on, hang on One thing at a time, brain, one thing at a time. So it probably help you. Like knowing each couple's enneagram, like each part of the partnerships enneagram, will really help you mediate, doesn't it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100%. So I work with either individuals on their own or in couples and I that's the very first thing Either they come to me already knowing their type, or, if they don't, then I provide them with the assessment that they then take, and that is my foundational tool. I mean, it's the best thing for communication, because if you know that, the reason why your partner is reacting the way they are, then you can understand that and you also know how to approach them, because you understand their core fear.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, if somebody is reacting out of proportion, like out of like, a little bit more dramatic or emotional, like oh, I don't really like saying dramatic and emotional, but a little bit like out of character, for whatever the situation is, just know that something is just like poking at their core fear. 100% Like for me. I become volatile Very when something makes me feel unsafe, because protection is very important for me. Gosh, I think I'm going to own the number eight the words.

Speaker 2:

What I do is I pay attention to the words that people use and all the words you're saying are in eight, all the words. You might be an eight with like a wing of a seven, which is that like social aspect of you, but yeah, I don't like the challenger.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to call it the lioness. There you go. I'm the lioness, what's that I?

Speaker 2:

like to call them the protectors. Yeah, you know they're challengers, but the only challenge back because they're trying to protect the people that they love. So it's not. You know that people say a challenger, but that has a negative connotation and I don't see it that way at all. Yeah, I feel like it's a protection.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I don't really like that word, but it's okay. So the thing is with the Enneagram is that there are some free resources out there, but I don't feel like they're comprehensive.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so the best online website I would suggest if anyone's going to research this, because there are a ton out there is going straight to the Enneagram Institute. Yeah, enneagram Institutecom. That's the number one thing and there are a lot of resources out there. But the thing is that Enneagram is so complex because we're all just human beings and we react in different ways and we change as we grow, right, but our main type will always remain the same. That's a question I get. We won't ever change type because of our type and because of the self awareness we have. We will then change our behaviors in our self growth, but we won't ever change our core fear and our core desire. That's true to each one of us, and the best way to know what that is is to work with a certified coach so they can tell you exactly what it is specific to you. Otherwise, you can go on the Enneagram Institute website and read each description without denying yourself the realization that if something really triggers you from what you read, that that might be the one, yeah, so, which brings me to my pretty much final question of what are your like?

Speaker 1:

not just okay, obviously, where can people find you? It's on Instagram, but what packages do you offer people? Just so that listeners out there know and work with you if they want to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so, yeah. So. My Instagram handle is at Natalia Hernandez Coaching. I also have a website by the same name, and so I work with either individuals or couples that are having communication issues. Their relationship is good for the most part, but they just know if they can communicate better and figure out how to resolve their issues and stop arguing and stop the bickering, they'd have a great relationship. Those are the ones I help, and I use the Enneagram as the foundation for that, so everyone feels heard and understood, and so I work with couples, either, and individuals for either four months or six months, one week at a time, and then they get through Zoom. They get all the playback recordings of our sessions together, as well as an eGuide to refer back to once we're done working together.

Speaker 1:

And what's the criteria for the individual? Because you said if it's for couples, it's if they have communication issues. If it's for individuals, what's the how? Do people know that they need an Enneagram coach, for example?

Speaker 2:

Well, it's usually the same. So what happens a lot of times is that, yeah, exactly A lot of times their other partner it's usually women, right that come into visually and the husbands or their partners don't want to get involved. Or what I see often is that they've already been to therapy and therapy hasn't worked, and so now she's making like that last final attempt to resolve things and so she wants to try things on her own, and a lot of times one person can change an entire relationship, because if you're showing up differently and how you communicate and how you speak to your partner, that's going to change how they then respond to you. So it's the same process. You just get more one on one time because it's just you versus you and your partner.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm kind of the last resort for people too, because people come to me when they're tired of the same BS that's out there about money don't spend, don't do this, do a budget, and they've done all that and they still have issues, they still feel guilty, they still can't enjoy their money. So, yeah, I am our last resort coach too, so high five.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I know it's like if only people realized this earlier on, how much better they would be and how much further along they would already be. But at the end of the day, as long as people get the support they need when they need it, then honestly that's all that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean the type of work we do. Somebody needs to feel cold for it. It's when they've gone further from the logic, Because, like I said earlier, if you can't logic your way through a problem, then there's something emotional involved and you probably need some deeper help, like a manual, Like a how to, not a general one. A manual for you, Because you talk about the interaction of all your types, and I talk about the interaction of all the money archetypes that we have, and you know it's you're not one or the other. It's like the dance between all of them and how they're all like. One is for me for the archetypes like. One is protecting you from the other, One is more active because it wants you to be like you're wounding, wants you to be something that your spirit doesn't. So it's just like it's juicy. I love this stuff. So thank you.

Speaker 2:

So incredibly healing, and I see how very well connected these two works are together. I can see that now, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so so much for your time and for actually researching each enneagram and their money habits and all of this, and I'm pretty sure that our listeners are going to love this episode and save it and repeat it and get very curious about the enneagram, about you, about just everything. So thanks for all your wisdom, thank you for your time and thanks everyone for listening and I'll see you guys in the next episode.

Exploring Enneagrams and Relationships
Exploring Enneagrams and Money Mindsets
Understanding Money Archetypes
Understanding Enneagram Types and Spending Habits